In Canada (my province at least) some intersections have cameras. If you go through a red light? The camera's take a picture. The government sends you a ticket. Then you have the option of paying a fine, disputing the charge, or not being able to get insurance for your vehicle when it comes due (which means you can't drive your car). Of course it wasn't my ticket and if my son was staying at home I would make him take care of it. Since he is working far from home and won't be back for a while I decided to help him out, pay the ticket, and have my son reimburse me the charge.
How much is the charge?
And the timing of the ticket was actually pretty good. The Hive Learners prompt for today was Punishments or Rewards and the traffic ticket is a pretty good example of both.
Obviously there is a punishment involved. The law says you stop at a red light. If you don't stop at the red light there is a punishment involved. In this case a fine of $169. However, there is more. Repeated infractions get put onto your drivers record and "points" are added to your insurance. Points can make insurance punishingly expensive. My younger son had a speeding ticket and an at fault accident. Points were added. His insurance? Went from $2000 / year to $4300 / year. For a twenty year old student? That $2000 per year extra is a severe punishment.
But there is also the reward
Of course there is also the option of rewarding people who do the right thing. Now with the traffic ticket the government could say "The infraction fee is $147 and if you don't pay we will punish you by charging you even more. The bill goes up to $169". You are punished for doing something wrong on the road then punished again if you don't pay fast enough.
However, they don't do that. They give a reward for "doing the right thing" and paying the ticket quickly. $22 off the ticket for prompt payment. Honestly I would feel a bit grumpy if I got a punishment and then another punishment. In this case? There is a punishment BUT if I do the right thing I can get a little reward which kind of makes it a little more palatable.
The actual amount of money in each instance is the same, it is just the framing that changes.
Or I could look at the points system. Yes, bad driving adds points to your license and makes your insurance more expensive. However, the government takes off points AND gives you a discount for every year you drive cleanly. Drive clean for long enough and you can even have an accident without it affecting your insurance. They reward good drivers with cheaper insurance.
There is a saying "Sometimes its better to use a carrot than a stick"
I'm pretty sure the saying was from the old days when you could teach a horse either by giving it a carrot (a treat) or a stick (beating) as a punishment. Both have their place and using them properly typically has the best outcome. At least when it came to raising my children.
I've heard that line used and attributed to the Bible by people who talk of the need to be allowed to spank their children. Indeed there have been pushes to disallow parents from punishing their children using physical methods. However, the actual verse in the Bible is:
Proverbs 3:12 'For the LORD disciplines those he loves, just as a father disciplines the son in whom he delights.'
Note that it doesn't mention physical punishment, only discipline? Personally I think discipline can mean physical punishment but I think it wise to keep the toolkit open to any method that allows the child to grow and develop into the adult they are meant to be.
Usually though I liked using rewards. They got their allowance IF they did their housework to a minimum level. They got extra money if they went above and beyond. If they wanted some treat there were usually stipulations and conditions to be met. Often times if they saw something in a store that they just had to have I would make them a deal. They had to research for three days and make sure it was the best deal. IF they proved the item was a good deal and why they needed it three days later? Then I would buy it for them. Then again they also had to justify the price to the amount of benefit. I also had to have the money of course.
In the end that taught them a few things. It taught them that Dad doesn't buy things on impulse. Second it taught them to think about something before they bought it, even if it looked good in the moment. Third, it taught them that they had to work to get something even if the work was product research. Of course there were other things I used as rewards. One time my son wanted a computer... I said yes but he had to build it and we had to research every part in it and he had to know what they all did. Another time my son wanted cookies... I said sure. But he had to find the recipe, check if we had the ingredients, help me buy ingredients we didn't have, work with me to bake the cookies, and then help cleanup.
Now sometimes the 'ask' from my kids was something I didn't want to give so I would make the work much more challenging. My oldest wanted an expensive cellphone. Really wanted the expensive cellphone. The tasks to get it were considerable but honestly? He put in the effort, proved himself responsible, so I needed to hold up my end of the bargain. After getting the cellphone he wanted a plan so he could actually use it to contact people and have mobile data. Again, I didn't say I would get it for him but punish him if he misused it. Instead I say "I'll pay for the plan IF you put a mobile tracker on your phone so I can see where you are going AND I put a software tracker that will tell me what apps you are installing and what websites you are viewing. Side note: My children got cellphones around the age of 9. At such a young age I wanted to keep them safe and protect. The internet isn't exactly young child friendly on a lot of sites. As a funny aside: My sons are now adults (over 20) and they still keep the tracker on their phone. It let me come get them when they ran out of gas and didn't know the address. It notified me when there was a motorcycle accident to so I could rush to their side. They could remove it at any time (the net nanny is long gone) but I've earned their trust by never using the tracker as a weapon and only to help keep them safe.
When using discipline the idea is not to make things a threat but rather a known consequence. Imagine a country where military law and might makes right rule. Not a very nice country. I would much rather live in a country where there are reasonable laws enforced by honest police and governed by just judges. But what does that look like in a home? It means there is no "DON'T TALK BACK TO ME or else!". That's just rule by force. A lot more discussion about appropriate behavior and consequences if it doesn't happen. More like "I expect you to keep food out of your bedroom, crumbs and unfinished food attract pests and make things unhygienic, if you break this rule then.....(consequence)". The talk was to let my children know the standard and what happens when the standard isn't met. The other half is following through with the punishment when standards aren't met. Known in advance, and enforced so the children know consequences are real. Of course, encouraging good behavior with rewards was also part of the conversation. "Keep your room tidy, wake up on time every morning and help keep the house clean then you will get a reward (negotiated upon with the child)...again with follow through.
In short:
I also had a "first time free" rule for most things...
I never assumed that my kids knew what was proper. Sometimes they did some things that I thought were really really stupid. The first time I would take a deep breath and we would talk, learn about what went wrong, learn how to make things right, learn what the consequences would be IF they did it again and punishment, if any, would be light.
Considering how strong willed and independent my kids are I'm honestly surprised I survived their teenage years. However, both of my sons knew I had their back. They knew I would be fair. They also knew that actions had consequences for good or bad.
However, I have two sons and what works with one would not necessarily work with the other. My older son? He learned that if he did bad things he would lose things. His computer, his cellphone, video game time, his bedroom door, and whatever else seemed appropriate. Around 16 he proudly came up to me and said "I've learned your game. If I misbehave you take away what I want. But if I don't care about the things I have you have no power over me and I can do what I want". That was not a very good day for me...but he was right. At 16 he was at an age where he had outgrown the usefulness of physical punishment. He was too young for me to kick him out of the house. When he didn't care if I took everything away I had no leverage. Punishment simply wouldn't work so I switched to reward. I told him honestly: "In under two years you will be an adult and you will be able to leave this house and do whatever you want. That's true. So you have 500 days before you have to do everything on your own and support yourself. Do you know how?". Then I told him "I'll make you a deal, you try to be civil for 500 days and I promise to teach you how to survive on your own, help you move to your new place, and even help pay your damage deposit, your first months rent, and fill out all the paperwork you will need." Then I showed him the paperwork involved in moving out... Showed him what adulting was like and from that moment forward he asked lots of questions about living on his own. By the time he was 18 he decided maybe it would be better to stay at home a little longer.
Rewards worked much better for him
My younger son? He likes his stuff a lot more. I can still punish him by taking things away and he listens when I do that. However, more often than not encouragement and rewards work better for him.
I'm certainly no expert and learned raising teenagers the hard way but one thing I will say is that I think of our relationship like a bank account. I build up the balance in the bank when I give rewards, provide useful advice, listen patiently, do things that build trust and generally am there for them when they need me. I burn those credits when I need to do things to correct detrimental behavior. When I have to say no. When I have to remove things they enjoy. However if I'm always the warden who is nothing but punishment? My relationship bank account will go empty and that is a terrible situation to be in.
As a father I believe it is my job to love them and guide them so they can be strong adults. It is not to be their friend or buddy. I'm lucky they know this, love me back, and trust me to always do what I think is best for them.... even if they disagree on the methods sometimes.
So...
In response to the Hive Learner post?
But always done with love, clear guidelines, and always with the goal to help the kids be the best they can be.
Good luck though... It is a real tough tightrope, especially with teenagers :)
And that's my response to the Hive Learner prompt. Thanks for reading this far. As always I really enjoy comments but even no comment Thanks for getting to the end of my rant :)
