Thank you for adding your thoughts to the conversation @erh.germany.

Actually you raise some great points here.

I've had full on debates with people in the past regarding the nature of selflessness, because I genuinely feel there is no such thing as true selflessness.

I was fortunate enough to spend the better part of ten years of my life as a homeless man on the streets of New York. I say fortunate because I see it as a great perceptual gift in learning how people (in general terms) perceive and interact with the world around them. (Addiction was a factor in this lengthy time.)

I had a lot of time to observe and think.

I came to the conclusion that true selflessness (as most will define it) does not exist because it derives a feeling from the selfless act. The feeling itself is selfish.

Whenever a kind person would see me and feel the need to help me in some way, there was always a connection between the help they were giving, their life, and ultimately themselves.

I was never a beggar, and felt that those who carried cardboard signs were doomed to never escape the life they were living. I flat out refused to beg, and always felt that I needed to figure it out for myself and put in the necessary work to improve my situation.

What held me back the most was feelings of abandonment from my family, who I had previously been "selfless" with and carried their finances, putting my own in jeopardy, and this selflessness aided with my downfall. Addiction to alcohol and cocaine didn't help much either.

I had to take some accountability at a certain point and put down the drink or I would probably be dead today, and would have never escaped from being a broken man in despair because of my selfless nature screwing me over. I was in turn, not able to see how I had become selfish with my thinking, perpetual victim mentality, and unable to cope, leading to progressed addiction which lead to hospitalizations, suicide attempts, prison. It got pretty rough before I started seeing all of the aspects involved with myself and others.

I observe that where problems arise is where someone wants to stand up for someone else, help them and solve their problems for them, or ease the circumstances in which that person lives (can also be said for groups). Where help is given, abundantly, often and to the point of self-sacrifice, "helping" has become an identification that I find difficult.

There's a difference between having an affinity towards helping someone in need who wants help, and pushing help onto someone who is not asking for it.

I personally know someone who I limit communication with because of this. I care for the person, but I cannot live my life without being told what I am doing wrong, and how I must do exactly what she says or my life will somehow go wrong, when I feel it is not going wrong.

I see this as a deficit. The helper syndrome, an issue within a person that they are not able to recognize and address, and therefor becomes an avoidance tactic. The person who lives their life neglecting themselves and obsessively trying to help others.

It's highly corrosive and drives people away.

Genuine selflessness is probably far less glorious or obvious, probably sometimes even seen as the opposite (!), perceived as selfishness and ego-centricity.

I agree, because a true selflessness harbors no appeasement in any given situation, and oftentimes is the causation of bitter feelings with people who the "selfless" one cares about.

... But a question came to my mind, while writing this: Is it not possible that selflessness detaches one from many people and that becoming used to a state of alone-ness is the result of it? Can it be framed in this way what you described as "it leaves many selfless people without anyone" ?

That's an inciteful question my friend. I'm not sure if I have a great answer for it lol.

I certainly have some feelings of loneliness "alone-ness", along with some disdain towards the idea of people turning their backs on one another. Disdain is a heavy word, and comes with heavy feelings.

Sometimes I get upset with people, and sometimes people get upset with me. We have disagreements and might need to take some space from one another for a while, but I'm usually never the one to close the door on a friend. There are some rare exceptions to this of course, where certain individuals are so self destructive and project/bring that destruction into my life, where keeping the door open would be a risk to my well being and livelihood, sure.

Those who are quick to close the door on a "selfless" person probably are lacking in accountability, and see the friend as a threat to the house of cards life they are living.

I think selfless nature does not detach one from others. I think being open and forthright in a world of dishonest shallow people causes detachment from others.

It's damn hard wading through a sea of filth to find a gem, but there are gems in the sea no question about it.

This might seem like a poor outlook, but I have a great love for humanity, and feel that a wisdom comes with the knowing of how little we know.