Hey, @melbourneswest.

First off, let me say, thanks for the reply. I'm glad someone else was willing to go with me on this trivial journey.

Secondly, I'm keeping my remarks here in the same vein as the post. We like what we like, and since it's all fiction, as long as it stays that way, it doesn't really matter. So, if I start to sound preachy or soap boxy, I'm not trying to be. I'm trying to explain what I think.

re: favorite franchises

Don't get me started about Star Wars! :) Just kidding. I've liked the movie franchise since I was a kid, which means the originals, the prequels and the sequels. Of the three, I would have to say Star Wars is second on my list, after Marvel and followed in a distant third by DC.

Chair pulled up. Thanks for the heads up. :)

re: Joker to Batman

We're in agreement about the symbiotic relationship between the two. Where we start to depart ways is whether or not Joker is bad. If I understand what you're saying, he's not doing what he does from a pure evil standpoint—he's doing it to create a better world. The current one is failed, corrupted, one could say it's bad itself or ultimately will be and therefore must be destroyed so that a better one can somehow rise from the ashes.

Some of the best villains believe they have a righteous cause. That's what makes some of them very compelling. We can see why they're doing what they're doing. Maybe we even identify and sympathize with their reasons.

However, right and wrong still exist, even in the fictional worlds of DC and Marvel. And I've never really been one for the ends justify the means. There are rare exceptions to that rule, but there are always consequences, mostly undesirable ones.

re: Movies with Joker

I've seen The Dark Knight and various animated movies and such with Joker. I have not seen the live action Suicide Squad so I'm not entirely sure what Jared Leto's version of Joker is. I might still watch it at some point. I will probably not see Joker, however. I'm aware of the backstory, though, since it's based at least somewhat on the Batman: The Killing Joke graphic novel.

There have been a few characters where the origin story is hazy, or a mystery. Joker is one of them. Attempts to give him a background story are fine, I guess. If they differ, they can add to the lore and mystery. Joker to me isn't someone to be understood though. At least not in a way that may justify what he does. He might as well be the literal evil manifestation of Batman, something that only exists because Batman exists.

I think there has been a trend lately in superhero movies to humanize villains and make them as sympathetic as possible. While I think it can create a compelling story, it can also be too much. The pendulum has swung to moral ambiguity, at best, with anti-heroes, and lovable rogues and carnage and gore for the pure sake of the spectacle. It's a "we have the special effects, so go for it" kind of thing.

For me, I like having something left for the imagination. It's always scarier or more impactful that way. I want to fill in the details, so it's better if the violence isn't explicit, and okay if the mayhem is off screen or off panel somewhere.

re: Stark

Interesting take. I guess I don't see Stark and Joker as the same, even in the MCU version. I guess that's because of what I said above. I don't think Joker is striving for anything good. He doesn't like the world as it is, but he's at his most compelling when it's about nothing. He can do it, so he does it. And to antagonize Batman. :)

I don't think the Joker backstory is meant to be the definitive backstory. I think it's meant to be a backstory. Maybe a Joker in some other universe. As far as I know, it's not become a part of the mainstream lore. I've liked some of the other possibilities better, anyway.

re: Loki and Joker

I can see Loki and Joker as similar. In fact, they may very well be the same character to a degree, but on different ends of the cosmic scale.

I can see Thanos and Stark being similar, at least the MCU Stark. I think that's the main premise. Thanos affects Stark more than anyone else because he can see where things are going and he is willing to go farther than most of his teammates are to prevent it. However, even he has the line he won't cross, even, as it turns out, if it costs him the one thing that he said he couldn't lose.

Comic book Thanos and Stark, though, are much farther apart, because Thanos was more power-hungry, and then power-mad in the Infinity Gauntlet series. It was mostly about impressing Death. I'm glad they went with different reasons in the movies.

re: Thor

Don't see Thor and Stark as the same character, though they both have bouts with arrogance and their own self-importance. That seems to be a common personality flaw/trait for a lot of superhero/supervillain characters. Again, though, it made me have to think about it, which I consider to be a good thing! :)

re: Joker and Stark friends

I guess I answered this already above in a couple of places, but it definitely hinges on what version of Joker gets plugged in. I don't see them as friends in the versions I prefer. :)

re: Daredevil

Yeah. Daredevil is a Batman like character to a degree. He has a superpower, but he still has to build the physicality of the man in order to fight crime and survive. I guess I don't see him having the same drive as Batman, or maybe the same inner demons. I know he's been retconned and re-imagined over the years, but I'm not a fan of all of Frank Miller's work, even though some of the Daredevil and Batman runs are good.

He was one of those guys that likes moral ambiguity in fiction to a degree that I don't.

Well. I probably should stop since I'm sure I have another full-fledged post here masquerading as a reply. :) It was fun, though.