RE: RE: Democracy on the Line
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RE: Democracy on the Line

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Hello mobbs@mobbs,
Nice to see you here, and I’m happy you weighed in on the conversation.Here are a few thoughts on the subject of the 2024 U.S. election and the candidate you have named.

1: I never mentioned Trump. What was it about my blog that made you think of Trump? The dangers I suggest are related to an individual who has engaged in or expressed some undemocratic ideas/actions. What was it that made you identify those ideas/actions with Trump? However, since you brought up Trump, some objectively offered facts. Please keep in mind that I believe if someone says they want to do something, there's a good chance they mean what they say.

2.Trump suggested ignoring sections of the Constitution . The U. S. government is a little different from that in the UK. In this country, the Constitution is a revered document. It is the foundation upon which all our laws and the structure of government is based. Every law passed must conform to the Constitution. Many of them don’t, but ultimately they can be challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court, which judges their validity based on the Constitution. We are governed by the rule of law. The Supreme Court makes mistakes. It reverses itself. But when it rules, that ruling is the law of the land across the country. Even local laws about dog catchers, for example, have to potentially pass muster when assessed against rights guaranteed in the Constitution. That document stands between us and tyranny. Donald Trump finds that principle inconvenient. He wants to throw out the parts of the Constitution that don’t suit him. It would be hard to explain to someone not raised under the Constitution the gravity of such a position. It is contrary to everything we believe as citizens. When we go to war, we don’t fight for a president. We fight to defend the Constitution. When a president is sworn in, he swears to protect and defend the Constitution. When Trump suggests he would not do this, he disqualifies himself for office. (Republican [reaction](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/republicans-react-trumps-call-terminate-constitution-rcna60224 to Trump's stand on the Constitution).

  1. Trump wants to gut the Civil Service System. Sometime around the early 20th century, laws were passed to remove corruption from hiring practices in the government. There is a class of workers, a small group, classified as political. These may be hired and fired at will. They are loyal to the person who hired them. Everyone else, thousands and thousands of people, the vast network of government workers, are loyal to the government, not an individual. They have to pass a uniform test in order to be hired. They can’t be fired without cause. This is a deliberately apolitical structure, immune to the change in party or leader. The system eliminated what used to be called the Spoils System. Trump doesn’t like this. He wants everyone loyal to him. He wants to fire thousands and thousands of workers, so he can hire people who will owe their jobs only to him. They could be fired at will. This move would ‘clean’ government back more than 100 years.

  2. We have a Justice Department and FBI in the U.S. federal government. These are supposed to be independent of the president, although they are part of the executive branch. Trump wants to remove that independence. He wants both the Justice Department and the FBI to be answerable to him—his personal judiciary and law enforcement agency. He wants, essentially, the powers of a king.

  3. In the past, U. S. presidents have been answerable for criminal acts committed while in office. This is why Richard Nixon resigned. His actions during Watergate potentially exposed him to prosecution for crimes. As a matter of fact, when Gerald Ford, his vice president, assumed office, one of the first things he did was to pardon Nixon of his crimes. This year the Supreme Court of the U.S. came down with a decision. It granted presidents immunity for all acts committed in office that are related to their official functions. Nixon wouldn’t have had to resign under this rule. He couldn’t have been prosecuted. This virtually blanket immunity makes the character of the president paramount. If the president is cad, if he is criminally inclined, there is nothing we can do about it.

  1. This president Trump, as he envisions the office, will now have immunity, the FBI and Justice Department at his beck and call, a cadre of government workers loyal only to him, no Constitutional constraint--this president Trump promises to throw journalists in jail who criticize him and to remove the licenses of media companies that didn’t support him.

  2. As for election deniers in the past: You mention Clinton, Gore, and Nixon. In each case, the named loser facilitated a peaceful transition of power. Clinton congratulated Trump the very next day. Nixon did not believe he lost but as VP, ultimately presided over the certification of the results that gave the presidency to Kennedy. Gore challenged the election, all the way to the Supreme Court, but when the Court decided in Bush’s favor, Gore accepted the decision and encouraged his followers to do the same for the sake of the country.

As for January 6: That is currently in the process of being adjudicated. However, I did go through his speech on the Ellipse that day. It is turgid, so it is hard to get through. Any objective reader (I am not) would understand this speech to be a call to arms. Not only is he priming the crowd with a list of wrongs and prompting them to act, but he wants them to have weapons. When security screened the crowd for weapons he told security to let the armed people in. They’re not here to hurt me, he said. He wanted an incensed, armed mob to march on the capital.

I watched that riot as it unfolded. So did he, from the White House. When he was told the riot was underway, he sent out a tweet that inflamed them further: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done.” .

I copied the more incendiary portions of the speech here, and left out the parts where he makes his case that the election was stolen. That case was tried in 60 different courts, and found lacking. You can read the speech yourself.

My excerpts:

...these people are not going to take it any longer. They’re not going to take it any longer.

All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats, which is what they’re doing. And stolen by the fake news media. That’s what they’ve done and what they’re doing. We will never give up, we will never concede.

We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. And to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with: We will stop the steal.

We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen, I’m not going to let it happen.
(Audience chants: “Fight for Trump.”)
Thank you.

And he looked at Mike Pence, and I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so.

We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s capital for one very, very basic and simple reason: To save our democracy.

We want to go back and we want to get this right because we’re going to have somebody in there that should not be in there and our country will be destroyed and we’re not going to stand for that.

And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us, and if he doesn’t, that will be a, a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our Constitution.
Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you, we’re going to walk down, we’re going to walk down.

Anyone you want, but I think right here, we’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

But we’ve done it quickly and we were going to sit home and watch a big victory and everybody had us down for a victory. It was going to be great and now we’re out here fighting.

Today we see a very important event though. Because right over there, right there, we see the event going to take place. And I’m going to be watching. Because history is going to be made. We’re going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders, or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity they’ll be ashamed.

But the only way that can happen is if Mike Pence agrees to send it back. Mike Pence has to agree to send it back.

(Audience chants: “Send it back.”)

And many people in Congress want it sent back.

And think of what you’re doing. Let’s say you don’t do it. Somebody says, “Well, we have to obey the Constitution.” And you are, because you’re protecting our country and you’re protecting the Constitution. So you are.

But think of what happens. Let’s say they’re stiffs and they’re stupid people, and they say, well, we really have no choice.

But think of this. If you don’t do that, that means you will have a president of the United States for four years, with his wonderful son. You will have a president who lost all of these states. Or you will have a president, to put it another way, who was voted on by a bunch of stupid people who lost all of these states.

You will have an illegitimate president. That’s what you’ll have. And we can’t let that happen.

It’s all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy, and the American people are finally standing up and saying no. This crowd is, again, a testament to it.
I did no advertising, I did nothing. You do have some groups that are big supporters. I want to thank that, Amy, and everybody. We have some incredible supporters, incredible. But we didn’t do anything. This just happened. Two months ago, we had a massive crowd come down to Washington. I said, “What are they there for?” “Sir, they’re there for you.”

We have nothing to do with it. These groups are for, they’re forming all over the United States.

Make no mistake, this election was stolen from you, from me and from the country.

So, I mean, I could go on and on about this fraud that took place in every state, and all of these legislatures want this back. I don’t want to do it to you because I love you and it’s freezing out here. But I could just go on forever. I can tell you this.

(Audience chants: “We love you.”)

So when you hear, when you hear, while there is no evidence to prove any wrongdoing, this is the most fraudulent thing anybody has, this is a criminal enterprise.

The Republicans have to get tougher. You’re not going to have a Republican Party if you don’t get tougher. They want to play so straight. They want to play so, sir, yes, the United States. The Constitution doesn’t allow me to send them back to the States. Well, I say, yes it does, because the Constitution says you have to protect our country and you have to protect our Constitution, and you can’t vote on fraud. And fraud breaks up everything, doesn’t it? When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules.

So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do. And I hope he doesn’t listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he’s listening to.

We must stop the steal

Together, we will drain the Washington swamp and we will clean up the corruption in our nation’s capital. We have done a big job on it, but you think it’s easy. It’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty business. You have a lot of bad people out there.

As this enormous crowd shows, we have truth and justice on our side. We have a deep and enduring love for America in our hearts. We love our country.

We have overwhelming pride in this great country and we have it deep in our souls. Together, we are determined to defend and preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people.

And again, most people would stand there at 9 o’clock in the evening and say I want to thank you very much, and they go off to some other life. But I said something’s wrong here, something is really wrong, can have happened.

And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.

So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we’re going to the Capitol, and we’re going to try and give.

The Democrats are hopeless, they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help. We’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

I want to thank you all. God bless you and God Bless America.


This reply took a while. I had to look up a bunch of stuff. But this is important. There is so much more, but I'm tired :))

Hope you continue to be happy with your lovely wife,mobbs@mobbs.

@agmoore: Hello @mobbs, | Ecency