Commit First

For the most part, if you like a girl, you should be able to commit to her if she likes you back. My problem is that I wanted girls to like me even before I was ready. Now, I know people do this. People do all kinds of things. But that doesn't make it right. That doesn't mean people should, even if they do certain things all the time.

Losing Hope?

One of my problems is that I would kind of tell girls that we could not date. You got that? I would tell them that I like them and that it can't work. I can tell you why I did that. I felt like honesty was the best policy.

Stay Focused

But here is what I would tell my younger self. I would say we don't have time to talk about everything to everybody. You got to stay focused. Yeah, you may like a girl. So, you might want to tell her. People do that all the time. But that doesn't mean they should. Yes, you can do what you want.

Transparency & Priorities

If she asks you, you can tell her you like her. Don't lie. But you don't have to go out of your way to tell her I like you but I gotta go. There is no reason for that. So, I did that several times in my life during these past three decades, in the 1990's, the 2000's, and in the 2010's. I can talk all day about this. More on some of these things later. I've been learning a lot about these kinds of things. I will continue writing about these things. Fred Rutherford gave me good responses to my questions and comments.

The following are some of the highlights from the thread I started on Love Shack:

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Here is what I wrote in 2012 as follows:

Out of the Blue

You're just her friend but then you start liking her. So what do you do? I met her August 2010 at a week-long Christian young adult retreat. She asked me some questions about missions & how we should go about following God's voice. She didn't introduce herself to me but instead just started asking me questions. Before that I never knew she existed. It was during free-time late at night & she was sitting at a picnic table. So I sat down & tried my best to answer questions.

Visiting Her

Today, I asked her on the phone if I could still visit her & she said it was still fine. So I basically got the same answer as I've received before she knew I liked her. I told her I would stay in a hotel or something. I asked her how long? She said, well, "I don't know." I suggested two weeks. She suggests that I bring a friend for the trip. I question, "Because I might get bored by myself?" I can't remember how she exactly responded to that.

As Friends, Right?

At one point she said she kind of paused when I brought this up. She then asks just to make sure, "You want to see me, you mean just as friends, right?" I said, of course.

Just As Friends

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 03:17 AM - Fred Rutherford responded:

Okay.... she may really only want to be friends. But, if you feel things for her and think she could become a GF, then by all means, pursue her. However, as you've told her you plan to visit as "friends," I'd honor that. For this first date, I'd plan on keeping it cool during the visit and acting like you want to remain friends. Really. Don't press her to become a full-fledged GF.... However, most women, even though they say they "don't want a relationship," I think they can often be convinced.... but this first date wouldn't be the time, IMO.... By going to see her in-person and spending some real time with her, one on one, she may realize you are great guy and one she could fall in love with. So I'd be patient here.... Something else... she may not have dated much and may honestly not be really interested in dating. She could have been "burned" by other guys in the past, so she doesn't trust this new guy.... Being patient with her may show her how you're different.... On physical contact, hug her upon greeting. You two have communicated a long time. You're friends. Friends, like at church, hug each other in greetings, so give her a good hug. Not sure about a kiss at the end of the date.... However, if things look to be good and the weekend went well, and it seems she might want to be kissed, give her a light peck on the cheek, nothing heavy or on the lips. Usually, don't kiss on the first date but this is a weekend visit in a LDR... so maybe it would be okay. But if she's firm on "being friends," then maybe don't.... You'll need to read the signals, though, and see if it feels right. Even if it isn't clear, it might be worth the risk.

Friendship Value

2012-03-21 - Saturday - 09:52 AM - I replied

Early on (October 2010) she'd tell me how much she needed me in her life because she needed encouragement because she never had a friend like me that could encourage her, be there for her, to talk to her, to give her advice, or just to listen to her.

Best Friends

December 2010 on Facebook she tells [me] that I was one of her best friends. Later she specifies that I am one of her top two friends. I don't know who the other friend is I don't think. She always tells me about the people that come in & out of her life & how she gets disappointed when people leave her life, & I don't want to be one of those kinds of people.... Do I love her because I love her or because I'm lonely?

Talked Into It?

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 10:19 AM - I added

I was actually talked into telling her I like her. A few close friends, including my mother, all suggested it. My original plan was too casually visit before telling her.... I believe that I'm mature enough to be a husband. She always tells me that she is really good at receiving vibes. She uses the word vibes. In other words, she is really good at reading people.... Yesterday I asked her for the first time about how she met me. Well, she said that she just saw me here & there at the retreat & saw that I was really happy like all of the time. She said she introduced herself to me & we sat at the picnic tables. Looking back at it I'm thinking that was our first date in a way. I think that is all she said about how we met. I still can't tell if she is holding anything back from our first meeting or not.

But as soon as I can visit her I'm praying that God gets a hold of her senses because her ability to read people could come in handy. I'm praying that God can help her read me so that she can just consider me & contemplate me in person.

She can reject me but I would rather she reject me in person. But I'm not going to ask her for anything when I go see her. I'm just going to come there & I will do my best to contribute to her life. We share in our ability at reading people.

So I'm praying that God helps me read her too as I see her in person. If I feel led to or if she wants a hug or something like that then I will totally give her a hug. Growing up I was never a hugging kind of person. We both have abusive, alcoholic fathers, which means we may both be incline or less likely to be affectionate towards others because we both weren't raised that way. So she may not be used to hugging people.

But at the same time we both may need affection so much more anyways because of how we were both raised.

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Just Friends

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 02:30 PM - Plum Princess wrote

I don't understand why one of the posters said she was into you just because she talked with you every week for more than an hour on the phone. That's not a sign of romantic interest. She could like you as a very good friend, that's all. A weekend was a good suggestion, but two weeks? :eek: I'd say, the "bring a friend with you"-comment is quite telling of her feelings for you. She does not feel comfortable with having you over for two weeks, not alone at least.

One Hour?

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 04:16 PM - Fred Rutherford to Plum Princess

Plum,

They've been talking VIA TELEPHONE (vs. email/ IMs ) for over a year. That's a long time.

She may be shy, but she's clearly expressing interest.

If she weren't interested and met another guy, and began dating him, do you think she'd still be talking with the OP on the phone for an hour a week?

That's a big commitment.

This situation sounds like this other LS poster, Teknoe's experience with a lady he met at church. They would go out for coffee, meals, etc., after church.

He never made a move, like reaching over the table and lightly holding her hands, or setting up "real dates."

Now she's met another guy and they're proceeding to getting engaged.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/platonic/friendship/252255-have-i-damaged-friendship-beyond-repair-5.html#post3732593

They WERE dating, no one just officially called it that.

No Strings Attached?

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 06:52 PM - Plum Princess replied

Don't be offended, but you have no clue about women... And commitment is the wrong word. She is not calling him in order to please him, she is getting something out of it and if she didn't, she would reduce her calls.

They both sound young and clueless. She probably doesn't understand that he was going to misunderstand her phone calls and he doesn't understand that her behavior doesn't look very promising for romance in the near future.

I just saw she told him she only saw them as friends?! And no, talking to someone on the phone who is considered a friend is NOT DATING. How old are you two?

Joey Replied

Why would she bother to tell me that I'd make a great husband for a lucky woman someday?

Plum Returned

I think she is comforting you. She is telling you that she really thinks you're great and by mentioning some lucky woman she is telling you that it's not going to be her. That's how I interpret it and since she already told you that you guys are just friends, I'm probably right.

Kathy M Added

I'm thinking she may be holding back because you live in another state, and so she doesn't think it makes sense to start up romantic feelings for someone who she can't see on a regular basis...... go ahead with your plan to travel the world and be open to finding someone else....

Moving Back

The toughest part is moving on. I don't feel like I can. But I know God can.... I have basically told her I was interested in her.... I didn't directly ask her to respond but I think she had opportunities to respond.... she might be holding back..... I was trying for the longest time not to like her back because we lived in separate states.... I still don't exactly know what I might do if I am able to go see her...... Did she lie to me when she said she would visit me? Because she told me a few time in the past year that she would write me a letter back. This was before she knew I liked her. Fall of 2011 she said she was going to mail me cookies too & never did.

Get Out

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 09:07 PM | Dev781

I did, back in 2004. It ruined our friendship and we've been in and out of contact for years. We finally dated in 2011 and now we're out of contact again.

At least I got some closure so I'll try to help you.

To get out of the friend zone is pretty simple. GET OUT of it.

Second thing, the touch is important. The difference between a friend and a potential lover is the sexual tension (I'm not saying a relationship is 100% about sex) but being touchy touchy actually communicates a lot on the subconscious level. You gotta know how to be subtile and escalate with the touch properly. Sometimes words are not enough, they don't trigger the emotions like the body does.

Why Why Why

Then I asked why she want to know when I was coming. They were like hey hey stop over-analyzing. True. I was. I was too unfocused. Too in a rush. And again, too unfocused. Too distracted. Too worried. And it is good to care. But you gotta stay focused on life. One step at a time. So, I'm writing this at the end of 2019. I try to learn from the past. So, I'm reflecting on this. I see I was rushing. I was confused. I was lost. I was many many many different things all at the same time. I was trying to figure out too much. Well, maybe too much. There is so much to know in life. The more you know, then the more you don't know and so on and so forth. Life is complex. I am curious. Too curious sometimes. Curiosity can kill the Oatmeal Cat. Some generosity may have brought him back. But still, there is not enough time in life to focus on everything. So, therefore, think first. Be patient. Think careful before you do something or say something. Truly truly I say unto you, pick your battles wisely. Pick your priorities and everything wisely as well.

Too Needy

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 02:18 PM Dev781

You should stop over analyzing everything. Love is the act of 2 persons mating. Let it be natural, don't think too much, don't expect too much. If the relationship is one sided it is not love. Why would you want a relationship with someone who wouldn't want you anyways?

And don't be needy or desperate. Attractions killers.

Stop telling her or trying to confess your love to her. Show her in a confident way. She already knows you got something for her, it won't trigger emotions now. You gotta take concrete actions.

Best Friend Story

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 02:55 PM

First I tell her that I like her over the phone by telling her a story: I told her that I fell in love with my best friend & that I kept it a secret from her.

I even said that I was going to ask her for advice about what I should do since I started liking a friend of mine. She then starts giving me advice. She tells me that honesty is a very important thing. This was right before I tell her that she was that girl that I started liking. So I was able to later use her advice & tell her I wanted to be honest.

I said these exact words, "The girl I started liking, her name is You" & she was shocked & said she needed time to think about it. Then I write her a four page love letter with a pen & color markers & sent that in the snail mail. When she got that she started reading it to me on the phone but then said she might start getting embarrassed after the first paragraph: so I let her read it by herself. I will go see her & I will play it by ear.

I was going to work at the same camp as her last year & she told me several times she really wanted me there. She was hoping they would hire me at the camp she was going to work at. But they didn't hire me & afterwards I told her I missed talking to her & she said she missed talking to me. She was too busy being a camp counselor to talk to me. She actually worked at the same camp [Redwood Glen] I did just the year before.

I don't fall in love with girls easily. It always takes me months & months....

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Fred replied: Keep a stiff upper lip, remain determined.... What are your dealbreakers? What does a woman have to be to get your interest, Joey?

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I don't just like her: I believe in the ministries that God has for her to do in her life.

Proverbs 31. Listens, cares, reaches out to people, has an open mind, knows how to laugh, how to have joy over circumstances, the fruit of the spirit, 1 Corinthian 13, a cute voice, passionate, caring, daring, adventurous, open-minded, willing to try new things, travel the world, committed to becoming full-time missionaries wherever & whenever the Lord leads. She has to have inner beauty that surpasses her outer appearances. She has to have integrity, character, a good reputation, patient, humble, cute, funny, exciting, on fire for God, for sharing the gospel, to teaching others, to helping others, in being funny, weird, crazy. She has to like Oatmeal as much as I do. She has to first be in love with God, then others. She has to believe in herself & she has to be crazy about me as I am about her. We have to be ministry partners for life. We have to have kids & adopt kids & travel the world & make movies & music & start churches & ministries & invent things & have adventures & learn things & everything for all the days of our lives.

I've wanted to marry since I was eight years old. So I've been seriously contemplating marriage for the last 19 years for real.

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Fred replied

2012-03-31 - Saturday - 05:28 PM

The type of woman you want, the one you described, isn't an ordinary, "garden variety" Christian woman, which was what I wanted (at least).

While I'm sure they're out there, it's going to be hard to find the type of Christian woman you want, especially one that's still single at your age.

Just sayin' you might find more women like that through Christian-based online dating.