Can America Learn From Athens?

Athens Greece

Finding Relevance

- Oatmeal Question - Was the city of Athens an ancient version of the United States of America? How free were Athenians? How did they become free? Did they have their own version of an American Revolutionary 1776 type of war?

Overcoming the Odds

Beyond that, when Persia came to invade them, how did the Athenians win? What inspired them to charge the Persians like mad-men for the first time in world history in a semi-guerrilla warfare tactic which was possibly a new thing at that time outside of Pocahontas Indian & Vietnamese ninja skills? Can we compare the Persians to the globalists of our day? Why didn't the Spartans help the Athenians fight? The Spartans didn't fight because they were in the middle of a Pan holiday. Not Peter Pan but a goat-legged Pan god who blessed Athenians with a promise of disease which in Greek is IKOS. After the Athenians won, some said that Pan gave the Persians an IKOS, a Pan-IKOS, which later became the word panicos or panic. Well, specifically, the Athenians had a thin line of militia. The Persians broke through the line but were then surrounded. The Athenians burned some of their ships.

Cutting Off The Flow of Money

Could we not compare their ships with money? In today's world, money helps people get around like ships do. If you cut off the flow of money, then you isolate people like a person would be on Gilligan's Island.

Fundamental Questions

Here are four questions we can debate in this thread:

  1. How did Athens become free?
  2. Can we compare Athens to America?
  3. How did the Athens stay free?
  4. What happened to Athens?

The Fate of Athens

I am specifically interested in the last question, about the fate of Athens as I wonder if America has that same fate, that same destiny, that same kind of future or not. What did they get right and what did they get wrong? Which things have Americans been copying from Athens? Is there anything that the Athens did that we should not be doing? Is there anything that the Athens did not do that they should have done? Are we doing those things now?

Athens is a city in Greece

According to Wikipedia, as of 2012, Athens had a population of 664,046. That is over half a million people.

Mycenaean Center

Around 1,400 BC, the Acropolis fortress (of what became Athens) was an important center of the Greek Mycenaean civilization which featured a king head that they called a Wanax or Anax which means tribal chief, lord (giver of bread), merchant, royalty, military leader, and/or king of horses. But their civilization collapsed during the Bronze Age around 1,200 BC. In other words, they lasted about 200 years. By the way, America is about 200 years old, as well.

Greek Dark Ages

After that came the Greek Dark Ages from around 1100 BC to 800 BC, which was a time of large-scale eastern Mediterranean revolts during the mist of economical recessions, like American 1929 Great Depression. From that came the birth of the part-European and part-Asian seafaring Sea Peoples confederation who would attack ancient Egypt and eastern Mediterranean regions. The Sea Peoples invaded Syria, Egypt, Canaan, Cyprus, Phoenicia, etc. Who were the Sea Peoples? Some of them were Philistines (famous for David & Goliath).

Pirates of the Not Caribbeans

The Sea Peoples was a confederate of pirates. Reminds of the Pirates of the Caribbeans III, At World's End, where the global confederate of pirates came together to vote on a pirate king. Elizabeth Swan became the queen king because Jack Sparrow voted for her. All the other pirate lords voted for themselves which meant an equal tie. Jack was the tie breaker. Jack didn't vote for himself. Smart Jack. If Jack didn't do that, then would anarchy break out? I'm maybe not against anarchy, but I mean, would they start fighting if Jack didn't break that tie? Maybe we could learn some lessons on why a constitutional, representative republic (America) is better than mob-ruling or pirating-ruling democracies. Jack proved my point.

Assassin's Creed Odyssey

The Sea Peoples reminds me also of the Assassin's Creed Odyssey video game which is set in the year 431 BC and it tells a story of the Peloponnesian War between the Spartans & Athenians. I love that video game franchise because it tells a timeless struggle between assassins (like Jihadists) and the Templars (Solomon's Temple Knights Order) that went on for thousands of years. Templars fought in the Crusades. For all you Star Trek fans out there, did you that the first king of the Roman Empire was Romulus, not to confused with the Romulans. The Sea Peoples destroyed each other in and during a course of several decades. By the way, Corinth (Corinthians) was east of Olympia (Olympics) & west of Athens. Sparta was south of Athens. Troy was north of Athens. Some think that some of the Sea Peoples came from the island of Crete which was diverse in the languages that were spoken there; some of the Sea Peoples possibly came from Troy. Some of the Sea Peoples may be related to Romulus, the first king and founder of the Roman Empire. Some of the Sea Peoples were maybe Italian. Places like Crete recovered a lot faster from the Greek Dark Ages. Was it because Crete was so diverse? Does that make diversity a good thing? It depends on a few factors. It is said that Greek colonies were independent on their mother-city, unlike Roman Empire colonies. In other words, the Roman Empire was probably more centralized like Rothschild & the world banks of our day.

Rise of Athens

Economically, the rise of Athens came around 900 BC, partly due to Athens being in the center of the Greek world. Due to social unrest around 600 BC, lawmaker Solon laid down some reform, which may have been the foundation for Athenian democracy which began around 500 BC and in which may have been the first known democracy system in the world, ever, about 2,500 years ago. Bills were not voted for and passed by senators but by male Athenian adult citizens. Women didn't vote. Illegal (undocumented) aliens didn't vote. Kids didn't vote. Game Stop He-She Rappers didn't vote. Robots didn't vote. Animals didn't vote. Dead people didn't vote. Slaves didn't vote. There may have been up to 30 percent of the males in Athens that were not eligible to vote on legislation. I think only the men were actual citizens at that time.

Sparta Was Jealous (Jello)

Spartans helped overthrow Hippias who was the last tyrant king of Athens from 527 to 510 BC (17-years reign). That king executed many citizens & increased taxes. As he began losing control over his people, he began asking Persia for military assistant. It's almost like asking the EU or the UN or the NWO for help because of the Yellow Vests. Like I said, the Spartans overthrew Hippias who then fled to Persia to seek asylum as if he was a refugee. Later, the Persians & Spartans tried to reinstall him as a tyrant king in Athens later on, but Athens opt to remain a democracy instead, even in the mist of the Persian threat of being invaded. Hippias had a dream that he had sex with his own mother which he took to mean that he would be able to be king of Athens again, to get his land back. Oh, by the way, the Spartans might have said that they couldn't help Athens fight Persia because of their Pan God Holiday, but they actually refused to help for economical reasons as Athens was an economical competitor in the world of free markets, of buying and selling, and Sparta actually wanted Athens to decline so that they could do better, economically. Yup, they were oatmeal jealous haha. Cleisthenes also helped overthrow Hippias. But then Isagoras became the next Athens king & he began doing the 2008 Obama Housing Bubble Thing by banishing hundreds of Athenians from their homes. Eventually, there was an uprising. Isagoras was forced to leave. Cleisthenes was recalled back.

Electoral College Origin

Around 508 BC, Cleisthenes began to reform the Athens government. He changed the political organization from the four traditional family relation based tribes, which formed the basis of the upper class Athenian political power network, into ten tribes based on their area of residence (their deme or suburb). There may have been 139 suburbs which were divided into three trittyes (city regions or districts). He favored the term Demonyn (a native of a city, state, place, like I'm an Oregonian for example). He reorganized the Boule who were like ancient senators, representatives. There were about 500 citizens in the Boule council. They had a lot (lottery) for determining who would be in the Boule similar to how Americans may be called in for juror duty in a court of law to serve in a panel of judges (jurors).

Build the Wall?

He also introduced Ostracism where a citizen can be expelled for ten years if there was at least 6,000 votes. Does America need that?

Father of Medicine

Hippocrates was born in 370 BC and he was like the father of medicine.


Socrates was born in 470 BC. Stefan Molyneux likes to talk about him & Plato & don't forget Aristotle.

When did Athens fall?

Athens fell in 1458, just 34 years before Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Athens fell to the Ottoman Empire which origin from Turkey (land of the Turks meaning strength). Assyria conquered what is now Turkey back in like 1950 BC through to 612 AD. Turkey fell to Greek King Alexander the Great in 334 BC. But then he died. Then land was divided up again. Then the Roman Republic was disputing over some of Turkey land from 100 BC to like 200 BC. Then the Roman Catholics chose Byzantium to be New Rome, the new capital of the Roman Empire. But it was later known as Constantinople. But the Ottoman Empire conquered it in 1453, just five years before they conquered Athens as well. I lived in Vietnam for 5 years. Only five years. But 5 years is a long time.

Ottoman Empire Who?

Yeah, who are they? They are Muslims of the Islam religion which originates from Muhammad who was born in like 570 BC in maybe Mecca, in what is now Saudi Arabia which was once Midian around 1100 BC, and they followed ancient Semitic religions like the Moabites. (ancestors of Lot via daughter incest with father Lot to continue the family-line as their other family members died in the Sodom & Gomorroh cities). The oldest daughter had sex with her father, Lot, & gave birth to Moab. The country of Moab, ironically, had a lot of salt. Funny as Lot's wife turned into salt. Then his son became the father of a country of salt. Moses died in Moab after incesting (I mean hitting) the rock twice. King David might have been part Moab by blood. Around the time of Ezra & Nehemiah, Israel started having something like George Soros Open Borders. In other words, Israeli men were marrying non-Jewish women from other countries. That can be a problem for a lot of reasons.


Around 700 BC, Saudi Arabia was then the Lihyanite kingdom which then fell in 65 BC to the Nabataean Kingdom (not Naboo) which began around 400 BC with an elders council government. They began controlling trade routes. Around 200 BC, they started having gender equality. Petra was one of their cities. They were also allies with the Maccabees. Long ago, Europe and the Middle East was becoming very Christian, all over, during the first few centuries, AD, but then Islam began to really spread around 600 AD in Saudi Arabia and towards what is now Pakistan. The University of Al Quaraouiyine was founded in 859 AD and it might have been the first university ever. So, why is that? How did that happened? Was the birth of that university a product of Islam? That is a good question. I'm thinking of doing more research on that one. Around 1258 AD, Islam spread via Muslim trade networks to Africa & Asia, & then via the Ottoman Empire towards Europe. Islam would blend with local cultures, similar to how progressive liberal leftists blended into American culture for decades in the 1900's AD. Slowly over many decades, many countries would begin assimilating Islamic customs, rituals, literature, philosophy, thinking, mindsets, perspectives, attitudes, etc. Muslims even assimilated into China. They took up Chinese names and blended right in. Muslims walked around with portable American Melting Pots. They would blend in. Like Chinese spies, the Muslims would blend in. So, does that mean that Chinese are controlled by Muslims? There may be over 3 billion Muslims in the world in thirty years from now by 2050 AD as they have many babies and while white people have been having less and less babies the past century or longer. The white people are becoming extinct because they're not having enough babies. If you don't have babies, other people will and will replace you with their religions, cultures, laws, people.


In this article, we talked about Athens. Then we talked about other related things. But it is important understand how Athens & Rome fell. How did ancient civilizations obtain freedoms? How did they lose them? Are we making the same mistakes? Can we reverse some of those mistakes? How did they overcome globalism? Can we learn how to stop the Persians of our day by doing what they did long ago? Are there principles and bits of oatmeal nuggets that we can take home with us right now?

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Can America Learn From Athens?

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